Grief is a deeply personal and often messy journey—one that isn’t confined to the loss of a loved one. It can stem from the end of a relationship, career changes, health challenges, or even letting go of a version of ourselves. And with everything happening currently in the world, aren’t we all just living with grief at this point?? In this episode, we deep dive into the 7 Stages of Grief and take a real and honest look at how they may show up in any of our lives.    

While grief is unique to each individual, the “stages” most of us find ourselves moving through draw from Elisabeth Kübler-Ross’s groundbreaking work, On Death and Dying, which introduced the now-famous “Stages of Grief.” These stages, though insightful, have been both widely taught and criticized over the years- I’ll spill the tea on what her critics say too! We’ll talk through the expanded “7 stages of grief”—Shock, Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Testing, and Acceptance—highlighting their value as a flexible framework rather than a strict GPS roadmap.  

Even though grief can be a challenging subject to talk about, it happens to be one of the things that connects us as human beings. A common thread of our human experience. It is one of those threads of shared humanity that connects us all.   

Show notes: 

1. Introduction to Spirit Speakeasy and Grief (0:00:01 - 0:04:07)

2. Overview of Elizabeth Kubler Ross's Work (0:04:07 - 0:14:11)

3. Criticisms and Expansion of the Stages of Grief (0:14:11 - 0:22:44)

4. Shock (0:22:44 - 0:27:44)

5. Denial (0:27:44 - 0:29:44)

6. Anger (0:29:44 - 0:32:07)

7. Bargaining (0:32:07 - 0:34:00)

8. Depression (0:34:00 - 0:37:43)

9. Testing (0:37:43 - 0:41:43)

10. Acceptance (0:41:43 - 0:48:00)

11. Personal Reflections and Practical Advice (0:48:00 - 0:53:58)

12. Upcoming Workshop (0:53:58 - end)

Sources:

 “Stages of Grief”: Attributed to: Elisabeth Kubler-Ross. in her 1969 book, On Death and Dying.  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK507885/  https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0030222817691870  https://www.health.com/stages-of-grief-7482658  🔥Don't miss this Live Online WORKSHOP Opportunity! Take Charge of 2025 with the Power of Your Intuition ✨Break free from self-doubt and fear, and reconnect with that true soul self within you. Get all the details of these THREE powerful workshop sessions & sign up to join Live on 1/25/25: https://www.joyfulmedium.com/Take-Charge-2025 🎁FREE CODE: SSVIP (code expires 1/11/25)  

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YouTube: Psychic Medium Joy Giovanni

Full episode transcript:

  hey, beautiful soul, welcome to spirit speakeasy. I'm Joy Giovanni, joyful medium. I'm a working psychic medium, energy healer and spiritual gifts mentor. This podcast is like a seat at the table in a secret club, but with mediums, mystics and the spiritual luminaries of our time. So come behind the velvet ropes with me and see inside my world as I chat insider style with profoundly gifted souls, we go deep, share juicy stories, laugh a lot, and it wouldn't be a speakeasy without great insider secrets and tips. You might even learn that you have some gifts of your own. So step inside the spirit speakeasy. Hey, beautiful soul, welcome back, or welcome in for another episode of spirit speakeasy. Today, we are going to talk about seven stages of grief. We're going to do a deep dive, and you're going to understand what, how and why they matter. Now, Grief is a deeply personal and often messy journey, one that isn't confined to the loss of a loved one. Quite frankly, it can stem from the end of a relationship, career changes, health challenges, or even sometimes letting go of a previous version of ourselves and with everything happening currently in the world, aren't we all just living with grief all the time? At this point in this episode, we deep dive into the seven stages of grief and take a real and honest look at how they may show up in any of the areas of our lives, while grief itself is unique to each individual, the quote, unquote, stages most of us find ourselves moving through. Draw from Elizabeth Kubler Ross's groundbreaking work on death and dying, which introduces the now famous stages of grief. These stages, though insightful, have been both widely taught and widely criticized over the years. I'll spill the tea on what her critics say too. We'll talk through the expanded seven stages of grief, shock, denial, anger, bargaining, depression, testing and acceptance, and I'll highlight their value as a flexible framework, rather than a strict GPS style roadmap. And even though grief can be challenging as a subject to talk about, it happens to be one of the things that connects us at human as human beings. It's a common thread of our human experience. It's one of the human emotions that we get to access here, and so in a sort of darkly poetic way, our grief can connect us. And I see myself in so many of these phases that I'm going to share with you in so many different experiences in my life. So I'm guessing that many of you will relate to and I just kind of invite you to open your mind to think of not just this present phase of your life, but the phases of you, who maybe you've been in the past, or things you've experienced in the past. Or where else can you see these different stages rising up in your own life? Grief is one of the many human emotions we all share, still, we don't talk about it openly, or really even usually identify it as an emotion that's happening within us, very likely about something right now as you listen first, I want to acknowledge that grief can feel like an impossibly difficult personal journey. No two people experience everything exactly the same, but we can often see pieces of ourselves in other stories. I certainly can. Grief is not just for the loss associated with death and dying, but also losses that occur, like I was saying, in a relationship, a job or career, or even versions of ourself, challenges with our health grief is a deeply personal and often messy journey.
As all of you hopefully know, I'm not a therapist, and
I want to encourage you that if you need the support of a therapist, please find one or a professional support group or professional mental health practitioner as part of your own grief journey, there are no normal or typical or the way it is experiences of grief or loss even, and there are so many models for grief and grieving used in variety of therapeutic work and different settings. But the one I want to talk about today is this stages of grief. Again, it was based on the stages started out as the five stages of grief, and now has been expanded to the seven stages of grief. So I'm going to share those seven stages with you in a minute. But I want to touch into the history of this idea of the stages of grief. It's attributed to an. Incredible woman named Elizabeth Kubler Ross, and in 1969 she released a book called on death and dying. I'm going to read a couple quotes about this book to give you some understanding of how meaningful it is. You know, throughout this history, since it came out and today, from the NIH National Library of Medicine. Their quote is the book explored the experience of dying through interviews with terminally ill patients and outlined the five stages of dying, which are denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance, often called dabda, D, A, B, D, A. This work is historically significant as is marked. It marked a cultural shift in the approach to conversations regarding death and dying. So that's the NIH saying, like hey. This is the book that even investigated the feeling stages emotional process of death and dying from the perspective of the terminally ill patient, initially, patient initially, and then expanded to their loved ones as well. Time Magazine named Elizabeth Kubler Ross as one of the 100 most important thinkers of the past century, and I'm going to actually read a clip from her obituary, which says, In 2017 2007 sorry, she was posthumously inducted into the United States Women's Hall of Fame in already in 1982 Cougar Ross estimated that Her stages had been taught in 125,000 courses in colleges, seminars and medical schools, hospitals and social work institutions. And I'll say, I'll cite these sources in the show notes. By 2016 her book on death and dying reached a remarkable figure of over, well over 11,000 citations on Google Scholar. So that's people citing her work as one of the sources they use, but it's been taught for decades now in everything from learning institutions colleges to hospitals and and patient care settings of all kinds. So with her book the five stages of grief. That's really what thought that all focused on. And later, these five stages were expanded into seven stages. That's kind of the history of what this work is and where it stems from. Now, sorry, I'm so froggy and dry today. I haven't the first time I'm really talking in the day, and this the afternoon, and my voice is not cooperating. So I do want to note that critics wanna talk a little bit about like, what are the criticisms of these techniques, just so you can understand what you know, let's have both sides of the coin. What are critics of this work saying? And it should be noted that critics felt kind of triggered by the use of the term quote, unquote stages, since they they seem to feel that that could really imply that these are isolated, progressive, and everything experiences like everyone experiences each of these in this order, in this way, in this ascending, I Don't know, system. Of course, none of this is true. Like, that's not true. We don't all experience things the same. I don't actually think the book is is suggesting that this is the only way or theory, but it does seem that that is one of the things that's heavily criticized about this work. I would suggest using these seven stages of grief as more of like a guideline for your own understanding, rather than a step by step process. For example, I think it's pretty commonly accepted in well, I guess now it's 2025, but in our day and age, that grief is not linear. I think, I think a lot of people understand that. At this point, I'm going to read a quote from a place called SAGE journals, which seems to be reviews medical journals and publications and things like that. And some of the critics for this work there say that there's a failure to account for secondary stressors, lack of attention to other stressors not related to grief, but need to be taken into account in assessing adaptations, the ongoing life changes, new roles, identities. Yeah, I think it's kind of part of the reason I'm doing this episode is like, yeah, these stages apply to all the areas of our life, not only death and dying. One of the other commentaries on this website, Sage journals, was neglect of the social and cultural context of grieving, which I think is a great point in 1969 this book was published. You know, I don't know that that was because it was the first conversations even happening about this. I'm sure it didn't totally take into consideration all the social and cultural contexts of grieving. So we each. Just like anything. Have to put it into the context of our own lives. The one of the other credit criticisms is that grieving is not stage like sequential, orderly, predictable process across time. Bereaved people do not and should not expect to go through a set of patterned or specific reactions. Grief can involve complex, fluctuating emotions and reactions sometimes experienced as a roller coaster. There are different patterns of quote, unquote, normal as well as complicated ways of grieving. Patterns vary greatly in terms of specific reactions, time related changes, durations of acute grieving periods. There are large individual and cultural differences in the reactions to loss. I think all those criticisms are fair, right? Critics also complain that this theory of stages, uh, suspect or infer that these stages happen one at a time, and of course, they don't necessarily, or they infer that we need to go through each and every stage which, of course, we're all different. So those were some of the criticisms of this work. I'll tell you my take as a complete amateur. I do work with a lot of people grieving. I work with the spirit world as a medium. I think you guys know I actively still do client readings and group readings and work with the spirit world on a pretty regular basis. So that's the perspective I'm coming from. But I'm not a psychiatrist or psychologist in any way. So for me, I see this guide of stages in more of like a mental picture or an image. I feel like it's like a lot like learning to walk. We don't go from not walking to skillfully walking right as we stumble, we kind of fall, we crawl, we bump, we scream, we cry. And time keeps carrying forward as we're going through this learning phase, right, this growth phase, and we continue to cycle through some of the variations of trying to stand and wobble and stumble and fall and maybe keep crying. And eventually we try again, right? And time continues to pass, and that process itself really applies to almost every area of our life. It's just walking. The example I have, we don't go from, you know, zero to to 100 but yes, there's a forward ladder or upward sort of feeling about the progression of these stages, but I also feel like it's true of the energy of each of these like as you read them, they each stand independently, as well they do in the way that they're explained in this book and in this work, it does seem like there's like A climbing the latter effect, but almost like a board game, like nobody said that the latter only works one way. So I think some of the criticisms feel like it's just because the way we're trying to limit it. And as we go through the list, I encourage you to see what you feel. But I feel like we can each apply these stages to all the areas of our lives, even beyond death and dying, which, of course, is what the original model was intended for. What I do know for sure is that these are not linear. And of course, everything lives on a spectrum. I think we're continuing to discover that more and more so, not only is everything living on a spectrum, it's each each of us is is a unique blend, and everything we experience is a unique blend for each individual. Most of us have many different threads of grief that we're holding as we continue to work this cycle on varying levels to varying degrees as life goes on and we experience like additional losses or even changes of all kinds of, you know, various kinds in our life. So I think we're hanging on to, you know, grief never necessarily stops. It just changes, as you'll see as we talk about these phases. So we might be still carrying a threat of grief or loss that we from someone when we were five years old, for example, and and then we just hold more and more threads, and we're in different places with this cycle or progression or experience of grief, whatever is the again, it's the language that's not quite right.
So we really all hold grief as we go through changes of various kinds, and right now in our experience, we all have various types and levels of loss in our own families and our communities and our countries and, of course, in our global family. And the universe doesn't say, oh, one variety at a time when it comes to grief, but on the flip side of this coin, the universe also allows us to experience grief and joy at the same time, or several versions of joy at once. So it's, it's an interesting journey, right, this human journey, because sometimes in grief, there are little moments of joy. And if it's a grief, you know that we are carrying the threat of for our whole lives, we might carry that thread of grief. And then also, as time goes on, have all these other wonderful. Or or, you know, challenging, or somewhere in the middle experiences that happened to us. So those are my thoughts on the on the stages. But I do think, like I said, I'm curious about your perspective. I do think we can really apply these to all different areas of our lives as we grow and learn and and change. And sometimes it's powerful just remembering, you know, if we find ourselves moving through one of these stages, that it's like the weather, it doesn't have to be permanent. It can be temporary. And it's, it's empowering to remind ourselves, okay, I feel like this in this moment, and I can, I can hold this feeling in this moment and just know that it will pass and change and morph over time. So what are these seven controversial stages of grief? I'm going to keep calling them stages, just because that's how they're known. If you like a different word instead of stages, let me know what that is too, just because I'm curious what other words we could maybe use in there. The first stage is shock. This one is layered, and it can be experienced in any combination of the ways I'm about to share and even more. And it begins often the moment that we receive news of a loss, initially. Actually, I want to add something in here too, because it doesn't necessarily only mean initially when we receive the first news of the loss, but I've seen this happen. Sometimes, if the loss is something that has an investigation that follows it, sometimes, as we as the person, receives a new piece of truth or information, this an additional cycle can start all over, like the shock, might start again just from a new bit of information or something new that happens even after that initial shock of loss. So initially, when we are experiencing this stage of shock, the mind and body can react as though they've been hit by a really powerful wave. We may feel disoriented, even unable to process what is happening or what just happened, you might experience a sense of numbness or detachment, almost as if watching events unfold from a distance, or even feeling disconnected from your physical body. It's kind of a different variety of out of body experience. Some people experience extreme fatigue or physical trembling or difficulty focusing. This is our body's way of protecting us from the overwhelming reality of the situation, even if we know it's coming. And this is an interesting nuance to me, like for example, when a loved one has a long struggle with a terminal illness, it can still hit us like a tidal wave when they ultimately cross over. Why? Because even if we try, you know, with all our humanness, to prepare, emotions around loss can be surprising and unpredictable. From my work as a medium, I can tell you that loss doesn't become easier, even if it was, quote, unquote, expected, even if we knew it was going to happen. It doesn't. It doesn't become easier. Next in the shock stage, you might find yourself going through an experience of like going through the motions, powering through, functioning on some sort of autopilot. This might look like just taking care of all the business of life kind of marching on for some it looks like springing into damage control mode or planning mode. This isn't denial. This is your body and mind's way of protecting you. The reality of the loss may not feel real yet, like it hasn't fully sunk in all the way. This may be your expected role in the family or in the dynamic where this loss takes place. It may be your reaction to this specific loss, like maybe it doesn't have to do with your role. Maybe it's this specific loss. This is the reaction you're having in this moment. So if the rules can kind of change all the time, because there are no actual rules to any of this numbness, detachment, or even a strange sense of calm can show up during this stage. These reactions are our mind and body's way of creating some emotional separation between us and this loss giving us space to process that pain a little bit at a time, instead of all at once. It's important to remember that shock is usually temporary, and even if it returns intermittently, it does lift, like I was saying, temporary, like the weather. At first, it may only lift for brief moments, but it's time passes and your mind begins to process the loss, even unconsciously or subconsciously, you may find that initial fog lifting, and again, it might even just be for a moment at a time at first. This doesn't mean the pain of grief is gone, or that it even feels like it's any less these little moments of lifting, but it does signal movement, even small movement. Towards transitioning into the next stage of healing. And again, this is sort of why it feels like there's a progression, because there is a in some ways, a part of these transition through the phases can be linear, but also that line is not always a forward moving line. Sometimes it's a backwards moving line, and sometimes it's not linear at all. The shock phase serves as like a forced buffer, kind of giving us time to absorb the reality of what's happened at at our own pace. I use that term loosely, at our own pace, because sometimes, especially if it's a really unexpected loss or even not our pace. It might not feel like it's at our own pace, but, but it's a slower pace than just understanding everything at once. The second stage of grief, of these seven stages, is denial. During the stage of grief, it is simply too hard for our brains to comprehend that our loved one is gone or that our marriage is over or that our homes been destroyed. For example, denial can affect our behavior in many ways, but it's important to know that it's a protective self defense mechanism that our brain triggers, kind of like a silent alarm for when it's too much to believe or too much to handle and we're completely overwhelmed during the stage of denial, we might feel upset or numb or any range of feelings. We may want to keep searching for a loved one, for example, after it's been made official that they've passed away. We may want to avoid others or shut off our emotions or shut off time itself. We may want to avoid the loss or not acknowledge it at all with others, that's not uncommon. And again, there's no totally common ways to do this. Some people might find themselves holding on to routines or objects or even hopes that represent life as it was before the loss. This could be anything from trying to keep a loved one's belongings exactly as they were to fighting with family members who lovingly try to discuss the reality of the situation. We may procrastinate, we may feel easily distracted or even outright forgetful. Some people this looks like downplaying the impact of the loss like it might seem like, Oh, this is not impacting them. Or why is this not seem like a big deal to them. They might be downplaying it, and this is usually in an effort to avoid difficult emotions, sometimes consciously and sometimes unconsciously. When we're experiencing denial, our behavior can shift in many different ways, and again, there's no normal or
right way. The third phase of grief that I want to talk about, of the seven is anger. It's the third stage out of the frying pan into the fire, is kind of what this one feels like to me, because denial like we're still sizzling in the emotion of what happened. It's just below the surface. Anger feels like jumping right out of that fire. Pan into that fire, right frying. Pan into the fire. Many people fight feelings of anger or feel bad or guilty for having these feelings of anger. If there's a normal it's totally normal. You may feel angry at the disease or condition, at doctors or emergency service members involved with the person that passes away. You might feel angry at yourself. You might even feel angry at societal norms or policies that may have played a role in whatever this loss or tragic experience is for you, some people will feel angry at God, or even angry at that, like a person who crossed over. For example, you might feel annoyed. And just in general, you might easily snap, and you might not even know who you're annoyed at or why you're feeling really snappy. Just in general, during this phase of anger, our minds are trying to regain a sense of control in a situation that feels, usually, profoundly unfair. It's completely normal to feel angry after the death of a loved one or the loss of something that's important to us, like an anger is a normal, acceptable emotion. It's, I'm not saying it's a convenient emotion all the time, but it's a quote, unquote, normal emotion. We all express anger differently, and grief doesn't follow any rule and order anyway, as we know. So while for some people, anger looks like shouting or like really obvious displays of rage or aggression, for others, it shows up as more of like a passive aggressive tone, or even an irritability or impatience or a tendency to like we were saying snap it seemingly small things, it even sometimes manifests as internalized frustration, right? Some people take things out on themselves or push things inside. It can leave the person feeling stuck or bitter or on. Able to let go of certain thoughts, or even unable to let grow go of regrets under all of that anger, of course, is pain, and while it might be uncomfortable to deal with, it provides more structure to grief than remaining them. So it's interesting to think of anger as like a structural component to this mix, but I guess it's giving us a way forward, or a way through, to channel all of this pain. So it's an interesting it's an interesting emotion, anger, right? Remember, anger is a feeling just like any other, and it needs to be expressed. The important thing is, of course, to find a safe and healthy way to express anger. This, for some is like lifting weights or punching pillows or going to a smash room. If you guys have those where, wherever you live, those rooms that you can just like, smash a bunch of plates, or we've seen them on TV or clips of social media with like the hammer smashing cars like a destruction room, even screaming like into the wind, like maybe you don't want to go smash things, but you just want to yell and get it out, whatever works for you. You even could consider working with a grief therapist or a counselor as part of any of these stages of grief, of course, if that's within your ability, and although anger is painful, it is one indication that we're starting to confront like the truth and the reality of this loss, rather than avoiding it. Anger often provides the energy and motivation to take that step forward, whether that's seeking answers, advocating for change or simply releasing pent up emotions, anger is like a fire that serves a purpose. And you can see how it's a very different feeling than like denial or shock. Anger is is a movement. It's a churning, right? It's a fire that serves a purpose. So this next phase of grief is the bargaining phase stage. The stage is commonly misunderstood. I would say, in this phase, basically we're searching for a way to undo the loss. I know it might not seem like that at face value with this bargaining phase. During Stage Four bargaining, people often feel helpless and hopeless. If yours is like the breakdown of a relationship or getting laid off from your job, bargaining might look like literal bargaining. Like, what can I do to make this stay and not change. We could be like attempting to negotiate changes, make promises. Begging is part of this, sometimes groveling, even making like a last ditch effort, those type of actions to stop this loss from actually happening. If your loss is related to a person crossing over to the spirit world, it's common to wonder, or say, like, I should have done this, or if I had only done X, Y, Z. It's often filled with so many what ifs this stage bargaining for the loss of a loved one? Which is was interesting for me, when I was first learning about these stages, because I was, I was kind of thinking like, Oh, someone's crossed over. What's like, are you bargaining with God? Which, I guess, yes, that could be part of it. But just, I guess, the the idea of being like guilty, or questioning ourselves, with all of those what ifs that are so common, I guess I never really realized this was a part of this bargaining phase. I often hear versions of like, for my clients, what if I had made them stay home? This wouldn't have happened? Or like I should have forced them to fill in the blank, go to the doctor. Do the treatment? Get therapy, go to rehab, not ride their motorcycle that day. I mean, insert whatever it is, I often even hear things like I should have known, wanting to take the responsibility back on on themselves as the grieving person I should have known, no matter what the loss is, you might feel like you need to replay events leading up to the loss, imagining different outcomes or What could have maybe gone differently had you acted or intervened in a different way. We also often try to, like I was saying, bargain with God or the universe right about now, in this phase, if you know that can sound like, if I heal right now, I'll dedicate my life to service of others. If I can just have that person back, it'll be different, or that situation back. The bargaining phase is not just about reversing the loss. It's also about trying to delay the full emotional impact of the grief by focusing on hypothetical scenarios or negotiations or even our own guilt or being hard on our own. Our mind creates a temporary padding, like a buffer, cushioning from the intense sadness that comes with fully, completely accepting the loss. It's natural for us to want to try to make sense of the loss, or try to rationalize ways to like, take some or all of the blame upon ourselves, if this loss is a loss of someone who has crossed over as a medium, I feel like it's my responsibility to put this little interjection in here. So yeah, it's natural to try to make sense or rationalize. I do. And so keep doing that. If that's the phase that you're in, of course, work that energy. But again, if this is someone that you've lost to the spirit world, please know the spirit world is not blaming you. They are often reminding us in readings, in my experience, that we could not control their free will, their disease, other people, the weather, etc. And they're they're often in in readings and sessions that I do, it's it's never quite the same, but it comes up frequently, I guess is what I mean by often. They really are just inviting us to let go of guilt or holding on to blame. I've even had communicators go into like pretty great details in the communication sharing specific examples of like, their stubborn personality in life and how this loved one, for example, like, couldn't even get them to eat vegetables in 30 years. So why would they think that they were supposed to be able to magically convince them to accept medical treatment they didn't want, for example? So just know has a little side note, part of the energy can be working through the blame we have for ourselves, but just know your loved ones on the other side are not blaming you. So let me move on to stage five of the seven stages of grief, which is depression, once we find some level of acceptance about the reality that this change or loss has happened, whether that's that we get we find, like a new career, or
that, you know, we finally accept that this person is gone deeper layers of sadness and emptiness and despair might rise to the surface. I think that's one of the reasons these stages can feel so misleading, is we feel like, okay, I'm finally moving out of this stage of anger for example, or denial for example. And we think like, Okay, I'm moving forward. And then, you know, if the next stage we're working in is depression, it doesn't really feel necessarily like moving forward all the time. And there are new layers of like sadness or emptiness or despair that might arise. And stage of depression really involves sitting with the pain rather than avoiding it or deflecting it. And like the others, of course, it shows up in our life in many possible ways. Some people experience, like loss of appetite or sleeping too little or sleeping too much, or feeling kind of like a heavy fog. It even can make like small tasks seem really overwhelming for people. Many people feel disconnected or uninterested in daily activities or in relationships or responsibilities. Some people struggle with finding a sense of meaning and even withdrawing from things that they normally would enjoy. And again, that's why these stages can sometimes come together. Sometimes you see pieces or elements of this stage during the initial stages as well. There's they are not compartmentalized in these tiny little boxes. They they blur and blend more like watercolor paints than specific step by step instructions. So this phase of depression might be overcoming like even just small tasks, right that feel overwhelming, like taking a shower or washing our hair that day. And of course, this stage might be accompanied for some by a deep sense of loneliness or aloneness, even with supportive friends and family, some people still feel like no one truly understands their pain, which in some way and to some degree is true, because we even if we lost the same person, for example, like A family group that all loses the same person. We're grieving our individual relationships and and the little special pieces as well that are unique to us and maybe only that person. So truly, nobody does understand exactly the way you understand it. But it doesn't mean that we can't be supported, of course, but health.com says one way to distinguish between the depression that's part of the grieving process and a clinical depression is to understand our symptoms and how often we're experiencing them. The way they say it is when you're grieving, you might have depressed mood for a few days and then feel. Better the next day, but with clinical depression, that depressed mood is ongoing, persistent and accompanied by feelings of hopelessness or worthlessness. This isn't in no way, of course, meant to, like, provide tools for diagnosis. Please see someone and ask these questions, but for me, and these are the questions I was having, like, well, what's the difference between depression and the stages of breathing and like depression, like a clinical depression. And of course, I think one can blur into the other, like we're talking about, these are blurry lines. The article on health.com goes on to say, if you find that you are not only experiencing these things, but also no longer feel a sense of joy, have decreased energy and have thoughts of ending your own time here, it's important to talk to a mental health professional for support. Yes, of course, I will link this article in the show notes. And also, please, in my opinion, if you can seek therapy, it's a good idea, even if you feel like it's not to the degree where maybe you're having intrusive or harmful thoughts, a good therapist can assist and guide you in understanding and holding space for your grief however it is presenting. So that is the state of depression. Now the sixth stage of grief is testing this one's really interesting to me. Testing is the stage where we're processing the emotions and thoughts and feelings around what has occurred here. The stage is also a time when we might begin to emotionally integrate the loss like into our life, and we might find these small moments of peace or even joy, as we explore how to live alongside these feelings of grief, rather than being consumed or like under the weight of them. And again, this stage is a great example of how these stages can overlap, or we can kind of come in and out of these stages as like, various varying ways of being. So it might even be in the course of one day, we're experiencing several of these stages, or we're fluctuating and flexing in and out of of one stage. We might even, like, spend five minutes in this testing phase thinking about, you know, having a small moment of peace, or thinking about, okay, how am I gonna have this grief and do this action that I need to do? And then maybe we get overwhelmed and leave it, but it's it's again, tiptoeing in and out of these and and sometimes we swim deep into them, and then sometimes we stay on the shore. In this phase, the testing phase, someone might reach for tools like therapy or journaling or books about their specific variety of grief or challenge or what's going on with them, maybe support groups, maybe, for example, like returning to things that we love, either in a modified way, or just trying to get, like, back at it. So someone that, like, really loves running, for example, and they had been in the earlier stages of their grief. Just putting all of that to the side, it might be them starting to go out for like, a quick 15 minute run, if that's what they love and want to find ways to reintegrate other ways to create, like a new normal. So any way that we're trying to create this this like, I don't love some of these terms, new normal, whatever we like in there better. We might also face little things in this phase, like practical problem solving, for example, someone might be like needing to begin managing responsibilities that previously were shared. Or maybe there's like steps that we need to take to address financial or logistical challenges caused by the loss. It could be things like who was going to pick up the kids on school days, which bills might need to get paid, and when it's the more practical problem solving part of our life that we're it's an integration, right this change and these things that need to get done in life. How do we integrate the two and hold them both at the same time, the grief is still definitely there. In this phase, we're trying out different things to cope, to understand, to make meaningful these changes, or to like, quote, unquote, move forward, living with and processing our emotions. I want to pause really quickly to talk about this phrase, move forward. I know that this phrase itself can be really painful and frustrating for people that are experiencing grief, particularly if it's the grief as it relates to the loss of a loved one. Sorry, that was an alarm on my phone. Just all kinds of things are happening today. This idea of moving on right or moving forward, it I just find that it like pretty. People like a thorn the wrong way sometimes, when they're in the grief of the loss of a loved one, because it's this idea of, like, why? Don't want to move forward. I don't want to move forward and leave this person behind. So what do you what do you guys like better like, what feels like a better term we can use, I kind of was playing with like, live on, because that's what's happening, is we are living and time is going on, but it doesn't mean we're leaving that person behind. I have, I've had a few people over the years in the spirit world, like a spirit communicator, share it as they're not moving away from me, they're moving towards me, which I really love that sentiment. But let me know what resonates with you around the wording of like, move forward. Are you fine with that term? Did you not even be like, not even crossed your mind to be bothered by it. Do you hate it? And you think like, Oh, I like live on, or I like continue forward, or, yeah, let me know what resonates with you. I feel like one of the tricky things about this sixth stage of testing is most people, it seems like we expect the grief to be like over at this stage, like when we're kind of getting back to our life, or, you know, like I said, learning the, you know, which grocery store do we go to, or how do we do this kid pickup, whatever, whatever it might be. How do I do this now, after this change, I think we tend to think like, okay, the grief part's over, and now the moving forward part is happening, or the living on part's happening, but the grief is still really here in this phase, and we're trying to test out ways to carry on. That's why it's the testing phase or stage. Sometimes in this stage, I hear things like, how can I live with this change,
or how can I live with this condition? Or I know I have to live on without them. So there's sometimes even in the phrasing and the things we're starting to say can signal us that this is the phase that we're in. This is also the phase where we're testing, not just in our day to day actions and activities, but we're testing almost everything at different times, and a big thing that we can be testing is what's true for us now, like, who am I? Or who are you without this person, or without this circumstance, or without this degree of health privilege, or like. Who am I now, given that I've accepted that this is is happening if I like it or not, so that's one of the other ways that we can be testing in this phase. It's important to note that the testing phase is also, again, not a linear process. We may feel hopeful one day and overwhelm the next, and some of the things we're testing just might not work, like we might test some ways of integrating things in a new way, and it might not work, and that could feel like a setback. It's not, it's just us needing to process again. It's kind of just like reworking the way we're thinking about it like it's it just puts us back to a different or in a different place, not even back necessarily. So this phase is really about experimenting with ways to cope and finding what works best for us, which, again, often involves some trial and error. I just think it's important to know in that testing phase that, like, okay, the grief is still there. I'm just trying out things, and it's a work in progress still here. This seventh phase, or stage of grief, that I want to talk about is the acceptance phase. I think this stage is often really misunderstood, too, and the stage, I think, pisses a lot of people off, if I'm really honest, I want to be clear, acceptance doesn't mean that we are okay with the loss or that the pain has vanished or subsided or gone away.
Oh, goodness, that was a crazy swallow. I just did
pause for a quick drink of water
of getting so excited about this acceptance phase, because this one eluded me for a long time, and really used to drive me bananas a little bit, because the way I thought about it, I think I just wasn't maybe thinking about it the best way. So I do again. I want to be clear, acceptance does not mean that we're okay with the loss or that the pain has gone away. Instead, it's really about reaching a place where we can acknowledge the reality of what's happened without resistance, like we're no longer resisting the reality of what has taken place or occurred. We stop fighting against the loss, or even we might stop wishing that things were different, and we just begin to see life as it is now, and sometimes we can hold two things at one time. We can wish it was different, but also accept and see how things are now. In this phase, grief doesn't disappear. It just takes on a new shape. It becomes something we carry with us, rather than something that defines. Us, we may feel a sense of calm or clarity as we begin to understand that healing really, truly isn't about erasing the loss, but about finding a new way to live on with the loss. At the same time, it's about rebuilding and reimagining. Acceptance often brings with it a renewed sense of focus for the future, we might start setting new goals, rediscovering passions that we left behind, or even new passions, or even creating a new sense of purpose. This isn't about moving on. It's not about moving on in the sense of forgetting. It's about integrating the loss into our life story in a way that honors our experience. Acceptance, allows space for moments of peace and gratitude or even maybe joy. These moments may feel small at first, but they're an important signal that this shift is beginning to happen to movements taking place, we begin to recognize that while the loss is a part of our life, it isn't the entirety of our life. It's important to remember that acceptance doesn't mean the grief journey is over. Waves of sadness may still come, but they're often less overwhelming, or maybe are not overwhelming as frequently, acceptance gives us the tools to meet these moments with compassion for ourselves and confidence that we can move through them, even if we're not sure how this phase is less about An end to the grief and more about finding ways to hold both the pain of the loss and the possibilities of what comes next. Sometimes, in this phase, we might see someone like publishing a book about their loss, or starting to share with others their story. Again, it's that sense of creating meaning from it or creating a next phase. Who knows? Maybe there'll be an eighth phase. At some point, maybe I'll make an eighth phase. But it's, it's holding the hope for more to come, even as we hold the truth of whatever this experience of loss is that has occurred. So as we kind of come to the end of this conversation about grief, I want to acknowledge really, the courage that it takes to think about these emotions and experiences. We of course, they're uncomfortable. We want to, like, put them in a closet somewhere, which is probably often why we like to think about putting things behind us. But then when we're in these emotions of grief, we realize, oh, there's no putting it behind it's just trying to live with. So it really does take tons of courage, I commend you like just to talk about it, let alone work through these tough emotions. And as we know and we hear all the time on social media, Grief is a journey, but it's a deeply personal and often messy and never linear journey. I think that's the part no one talks about. It's not something to get over, but something to integrate a process of learning to live with loss while rediscovering meaning in our lives, whether your grief stems from the loss of a loved one or relationship, a job or even a version of yourself, it's important to give yourself grace. Healing doesn't have a timeline, and it certainly does not have a one size fits all solution. You're allowed to grieve in your own way, in your own time, and see and seek whatever support you deem appropriate when you need it. If there's one takeaway from today, it's this grief is not something to conquer, it's something to be witnessed and held with compassion. Be kind to yourself as you navigate these waters, and if you're feeling overwhelmed, please don't hesitate to seek professional help. You don't have to do this alone. I want to thank you for spending this time with me, and I hope this conversation's offered some insights, some comfort or simply a reminder that you're not alone in your journey. If this episode resonated with you, please share it with someone who might find it helpful, and let's keep creating space for healing and connection, and really, again, I'm so grateful to have you here and have you a part of this experience with me and to be sharing and talking about our experiences together. So whether you have found yourself in grief in the past, or you're realizing that we're doing some grieving along the way, between you know, wars and elections and COVID and other things happening, we're in grief all the time. And how can these seven stages serve you as a guideline? Or maybe serve someone that you care about. Again, I'm so grateful as always to have you here with me if you're listening to this at the time it's created and you're still here at the end. First of all, thank you. You're amazing. Please subscribe wherever you're listening to this. If you haven't already, don't miss the opportunity for the upcoming workshop this January. It's about taking charge, and I'm going to walk you through several processes. It's about a half day, about six hours in total, with breaks three separate, very clear sessions. So I will put that in the show notes. There probably was some kind of little announcement that popped in somewhere during this episode. I won't go super into it, because if you're listening, way in the future. Probably I have something else going on by now, but if you're listening in January, make sure you take advantage of this workshop. And I do have a free code, S, S, V, i, p for the spirit speakeasy, pod squad. The code expires January 11. After that, the workshop's only $27 so it's not a crazy investment, but if you want to get it for free, just take advantage. Before January 11. There's a recording if you can't attend live. And if you want to know all of the itinerary of the day, trust me, it's going to be amazing. But if you want to know exactly, have it all spelled out for you and sign up. You can do it on my website, joyful medium.com in the event section, or there's a direct link in the show notes wherever you're watching or listening to this. And I would love it if you join me, because part of one of the things that can help us on our grief journey or just our human journey, is having bits of community that we can anchor into. And I would love to be a supportive part of your community. So thanks for being here with me today. As always, Big hugs. Lots of love. Happy New Year from inside spirit speakeasy, you.